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FINANCIAL CHRONICLE™ » FINANCIAL CHRONICLE™ » Malik and Indrani's transparent system to monitor broker activities

Malik and Indrani's transparent system to monitor broker activities

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tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

kam2011


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t3755-open-letter-to-sec-chairperson-and-other-officials?highlight=letter+to

kam2011


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t11796-sec-dg-malik-cader-out-or-in#78515

econ


Global Moderator
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste our time on those two persons.

those buggers went away. but billions of retail money(including epf money invested in market) have wiped out from the market. Those buggers did not get any punishment for their wrong policies.instead one got a promotion..lol

tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@kam2011 wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t3755-open-letter-to-sec-chairperson-and-other-officials?highlight=letter+to

Thank you very much, But that post like what SLStock says (and I what my own previous posts say) is a complaint about the approach to how they cleared the credit. But As described in my blog post (link above) and as agreed by others here, the issue that they were tackling is not something that anyone anywhere in the world had had to tackle before. So surely one can't expect them to get it right the first time?

Anyway consider this:

At the time that Indrani and Malik took over, the existing rule was that brokers were supposed to force sell everything on the next day if payment had not been made by T+3. Now brokers have time till T+5 to force sell (and you can't deny that it's the work of Mrs Sugathadasa and Mr Cader).!

Now if brokers have extra cash, they don't even need to force sell on T+5 they can extend the client credit! And that is also the work of those two!!

Last but not least, the old rule was that failure to make payment on the third day had to be reported the SEC. Now that rule is not in force either!!!

so if credit is what the market desparately needs, surely this is the most market friendly SEC that there has ever been

econ

econ
Global Moderator
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t3755-open-letter-to-sec-chairperson-and-other-officials?highlight=letter+to

Thank you very much, But that post like what SLStock says (and I what my own previous posts say) is a complaint about the approach to how they cleared the credit. But As described in my blog post (link above) and as agreed by others here, the issue that they were tackling is not something that anyone anywhere in the world had had to tackle before. So surely one can't expect them to get it right the first time?

Anyway consider this:

At the time that Indrani and Malik took over, the existing rule was that brokers were supposed to force sell everything on the next day if payment had not been made by T+3. Now brokers have time till T+5 to force sell (and you can't deny that it's the work of Mrs Sugathadasa and Mr Cader).!

Now if brokers have extra cash, they don't even need to force sell on T+5 they can extend the client credit! And that is also the work of those two!!

Last but not least, the old rule was that failure to make payment on the third day had to be reported the SEC. Now that rule is not in force either!!!

so if credit is what the market desparately needs, surely this is the most market friendly SEC that there has ever been


no before those buggers change the rules, brokers gave credit without force selling,, they just take interest but no forced selling. at least for my broker I know for sure.

tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@econ wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t3755-open-letter-to-sec-chairperson-and-other-officials?highlight=letter+to

Thank you very much, But that post like what SLStock says (and I what my own previous posts say) is a complaint about the approach to how they cleared the credit. But As described in my blog post (link above) and as agreed by others here, the issue that they were tackling is not something that anyone anywhere in the world had had to tackle before. So surely one can't expect them to get it right the first time?

Anyway consider this:

At the time that Indrani and Malik took over, the existing rule was that brokers were supposed to force sell everything on the next day if payment had not been made by T+3. Now brokers have time till T+5 to force sell (and you can't deny that it's the work of Mrs Sugathadasa and Mr Cader).!

Now if brokers have extra cash, they don't even need to force sell on T+5 they can extend the client credit! And that is also the work of those two!!

Last but not least, the old rule was that failure to make payment on the third day had to be reported the SEC. Now that rule is not in force either!!!

so if credit is what the market desparately needs, surely this is the most market friendly SEC that there has ever been


no before those buggers change the rules, brokers gave credit without force selling,, they just take interest but no forced selling. at least for my broker I know for sure.

No econ, that's where everyone has got it so wrong!!

The rules were all in place. Since about 2008 the brokers started breaking them with impunity with utter disregard for the financial system that they were placing in peril.

The brokers broke the rules. The outgoing SEC bosses amended them to be more favorable to the brokers.

I

Kumar

Kumar
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
My dad personally experienced force selling by his broker in 1992 September.
The brokers at that time were charging interest for the credit.
But market went down after some political problem. (Ex - President Premadasa Impeachment case )
Everybody were panicking.
He lost more than Rs. 132,000, then.

kam2011


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@Kumar wrote:My dad personally experienced force selling by his broker in 1992 September.
The brokers at that time were charging interest for the credit.
But market went down after some political problem. (Ex - President Premadasa Impeachment case )
Everybody were panicking.
He lost more than Rs. 132,000, then.

If someone do not settle by way of credit(those days provided by broker himself) or cash one day brokers will have to sell.But still they used to inform the client several times and given extended period.



Last edited by kam2011 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

bakapandithaya

bakapandithaya
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@kam2011 wrote:
@Kumar wrote:My dad personally experienced force selling by his broker in 1992 September.
The brokers at that time were charging interest for the credit.
But market went down after some political problem. (Ex - President Premadasa Impeachment case )
Everybody were panicking.
He lost more than Rs. 132,000, then.

If someone do not settle by way of credit(those days provided by broker himself) or cash one day brokers will have to sell.But still they used to inform the client sveral times and given extended period.

Yes, CTSmith informing

kam2011


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

tubal here is some more;

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t13475-sec-cancels-meeting-tomorrow-with-stock-brokers#88004

tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@kam2011 wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

tubal here is some more;

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t13475-sec-cancels-meeting-tomorrow-with-stock-brokers#88004

What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.

kam2011


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
tubal wrote
What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.

_________________
You are complaining that the market which went up 375% has dropped 20% ? How much do you charge for shining a pair of shoes?
http://tubalcse.wordpress.com

tubal
Vice President - Equity Analytics


Posts: 1039
Points: 1726
Virtual Portfolio (Rs): 1,000,000
Join date: 2011-01-27

Not the topic. Could you pl. spend 30 seconds to read the posts under that.


tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@kam2011 wrote:tubal wrote
What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.

_________________
You are complaining that the market which went up 375% has dropped 20% ? How much do you charge for shining a pair of shoes?
http://tubalcse.wordpress.com

tubal
Vice President - Equity Analytics


Posts: 1039
Points: 1726
Virtual Portfolio (Rs): 1,000,000
Join date: 2011-01-27

Not the topic. Could you pl. spend 30 seconds to read the posts under that.



I have already done so, there are all kinds of people saying the SEC ruined the market but no one can say anything specific - except that they changed the credit rules - which they did they made the credit rules more relaxed.

econ

econ
Global Moderator
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:tubal wrote
What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.

_________________
You are complaining that the market which went up 375% has dropped 20% ? How much do you charge for shining a pair of shoes?
http://tubalcse.wordpress.com

tubal
Vice President - Equity Analytics


Posts: 1039
Points: 1726
Virtual Portfolio (Rs): 1,000,000
Join date: 2011-01-27

Not the topic. Could you pl. spend 30 seconds to read the posts under that.



I have already done so, there are all kinds of people saying the SEC ruined the market but no one can say anything specific - except that they changed the credit rules - which they did they made the credit rules more relaxed.

those guys ruined the market by unnecessary intervention. market behavior should be decided by market players. unnecessary intervention only aggravate the situation.
their unnecessary steps are follows.
1. price bands
2. credit rule change
3. force selling rule
4. change of rules time to time

we had worlds 2nd best stock market triggered by ending 30 year civil war.
unfortunately SEC ruined that trend by imposing unnecessary intervention. Retailers who entered the market after august 2010, suffered losses of billions of money due to SEC intervention.

tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
[quote="econ"]
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:tubal wrote
What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.

_________________
You are complaining that the market which went up 375% has dropped 20% ? How much do you charge for shining a pair of shoes?
http://tubalcse.wordpress.com

tubal
Vice President - Equity Analytics


Posts: 1039
Points: 1726
Virtual Portfolio (Rs): 1,000,000
Join date: 2011-01-27

Not the topic. Could you pl. spend 30 seconds to read the posts under that.



I have already done so, there are all kinds of people saying the SEC ruined the market but no one can say anything specific - except that they changed the credit rules - which they did they made the credit rules more relaxed.

those guys ruined the market by unnecessary intervention. market behavior should be decided by market players. unnecessary intervention only aggravate the situation.
their unnecessary steps are follows.
1. price bands
2. credit rule change
3. force selling rule
4. change of rules time to time

we had worlds 2nd best stock market triggered by ending 30 year civil war.
unfortunately SEC ruined that trend by imposing unnecessary intervention.[/quote

Rolling on the floor laughing econ. As already mentioned they relaxed the items 2, 3 from what it was before. Four I agree they did a bad job, but when deflating bubbles people make mistakes and you ned to forget them.
Price bands is a joke but when the big manipulators threaten to collapse the market if their manipulations are stopped and the SEC is trying to avoid the collapse what else can they do?

you can have the last word.

econ

econ
Global Moderator
tubul>

2,3 sec did not relax man.
until their intervention , brokers usually did not force sell . if they want they might but they usually did not sell. I do not know many brokers but for my broker they did not sell by force.
but after sec rule they had to do it to satisfy the sec rule.
anyway, who said we had a bubble in stock market due to broker credits?

then our vehicle market is 5 times far worse than stock market because almost all car that run on the roads are bought on credits(leasing)..lol

smallville

smallville
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
We're back to the square one..

econ..
Why brokers did not force sell earlier? cuz they've given credit than they supposed to give as per initial SEC rules, clients were paying interest and keeping the credit.. now if every1 were adhering 2 rules couldn't they comply with the requirement and sell by T+3 or T+5 at least without keeping it extended?

Very few did so but the credit kept accumulating..

Leasing is not an example we can take here, its a lending business.. clients keep paying the monthly fee+interest to obtain that facility..
stocks are not on lend, u need to buy those.. Wink

Even though these two officials did some brainless stuff here and there, we wouldn't be in a big mess if the credit were cleared by June 30, 2011..
Extending the time was the devil as I see it..

rijayasooriya

rijayasooriya
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Before u go against someone u have to evaluate that one's strengh.
SEC tried to go against manipulators,insider dealors most of which are HNWI.
But SEC had not evaluate their strengh,strengh of the market and strengh of their enemies.
Our market is a small one.Even a single billionaire can shake the whole market.
Those HNWI are highly connected people.They can throw money everywhere.Our politicians are so corrupted.So that If they are given large sum of money they will change their policies in favour of them.(HNWI) At the sametime they have overadequate holding power.
On the otherhand what SEC can do ? Actually nothing significant.So what SEC had tried is just like using AK47 and T56 against Artillaries and Multi Barrels.No need to tell the end result.
See what has happened to them ? They have become jokers and I am pretty sure that those HNWI are laughing even from their back.

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@econ wrote:tubul>

2,3 sec did not relax man.
until their intervention , brokers usually did not force sell . if they want they might but they usually did not sell. I do not know many brokers but for my broker they did not sell by force.
but after sec rule they had to do it to satisfy the sec rule.
anyway, who said we had a bubble in stock market due to broker credits?

then our vehicle market is 5 times far worse than stock market because almost all car that run on the roads are bought on credits(leasing)..lol

Very correct. Not only vehicle market all electronics and many others including housing.

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:
@tubal wrote:
@kam2011 wrote:Many members have already explained. I dont think that you have not read them. Sorry tubal,It is not worth to waste four time on those two persons.

Have they? SLStock has given an explaination above? but no one else has said what exactly it is that they have done wrong. If you can't spare thirty seconds to type it out, could be so kind as to copy and paste a link to a previous post giving a detailed explaination?

thank you so much.

tubal here is some more;

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t13475-sec-cancels-meeting-tomorrow-with-stock-brokers#88004




What you mean to say the SEC cancelling the meeting is ruining the market? The forum is getting more and more like a mad house. No wonder even foreigners have started panic selling. They want to get the hell out of the mad house as quickly as possible.


Well said .You are right. SEC made our market a mud house. I too agree with u.Foreiners and most srilankans also exiting for their own benifit.

econ

econ
Global Moderator
@smallville wrote:We're back to the square one..

econ..
Why brokers did not force sell earlier? cuz they've given credit than they supposed to give as per initial SEC rules, clients were paying interest and keeping the credit.. now if every1 were adhering 2 rules couldn't they comply with the requirement and sell by T+3 or T+5 at least without keeping it extended?

Very few did so but the credit kept accumulating..

Leasing is not an example we can take here, its a lending business.. clients keep paying the monthly fee+interest to obtain that facility..
stocks are not on lend, u need to buy those.. Wink

Even though these two officials did some brainless stuff here and there, we wouldn't be in a big mess if the credit were cleared by June 30, 2011..
Extending the time was the devil as I see it..

leasing, bank loans, margin tradings, housing loans all are credits.. when people could not pay back whole market can collapse.. US housing bubble is caused by sub prime mortgage loan not by broker credits, Japan stock/real estate price bubble was caused by bank loans not by broker credits. so the sri lankan bank loans and leasing business is far worse than broker credits. on the other hand, amount of broker credits is far less than the amount of leasing.. Also, Do you think every customer pay their lease until the term. I know many are just buying vehicle on lease and selling with a lease to another. so it is also just a buying and selling on credits similar to margin trading..

aj


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Deviating from the current topic, but talking about the bank loans and leased vehicles,

How much work do you have to do to make get bank loan, do they just give the bank loan as soon as you enter like the brokers? They valuated the property, take it as mortgage, all sorts of insurances. After all that if you can't pay up they have the properly valued property to auction.

How about leased vehicles? Do they overvalue the vehicles or or they just give it the fair value? And if the customer doesn't pay, they have the fairly valued vehicle to auction and get the remainder.

What about stocks? How much background check, valuations do brokers do before giving credit? Each credit pushes the price up? Brokers don't have limits, ethics and brains. They only want money. We have a stock over valued at 25+ 35+ 100+ and if the customer doesn't pay the broker can sell it for 50 cents and then what?

Bank loans, property, vehicles have real concrete value. What about stocks?

See the difference?

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@aj wrote:Deviating from the current topic, but talking about the bank loans and leased vehicles,

How much work do you have to do to make get bank loan, do they just give the bank loan as soon as you enter like the brokers? They valuated the property, take it as mortgage, all sorts of insurances. After all that if you can't pay up they have the properly valued property to auction.

How about leased vehicles? Do they overvalue the vehicles or or they just give it the fair value? And if the customer doesn't pay, they have the fairly valued vehicle to auction and get the remainder.

What about stocks? How much background check, valuations do brokers do before giving credit? Each credit pushes the price up? Brokers don't have limits, ethics and brains. They only want money. We have a stock over valued at 25+ 35+ 100+ and if the customer doesn't pay the broker can sell it for 50 cents and then what?

Bank loans, property, vehicles have real concrete value. What about stocks?




See the difference?

Lender is taking a risk. For that they charge an interest. yes, to certain extend there is a difference between shares and Motor vehicles,Property etc. But everybody knows that you can obtain nearly 100% credit for those tangible assets. But shares you get a maximum of 50% of your share value. That is coz of the defference you mentioned.

gann

gann
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
I cant believe you guys want to hand over an all seeing eye to a regulator.
A centralized system would be ideal for the manupulators get all the reports they need from one stop shop. pirat
Duke welcome back Smile

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