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FINANCIAL CHRONICLE™ » CORPORATE CHRONICLE™ » LDEV.R what a disappointment

LDEV.R what a disappointment

+9
2011_NewComer
innam
Fresher
thanujav
xhora
Quibit
tubal
SL.Market
morros
13 posters

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1LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 3:49 pm

morros

morros
Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic

Its really disappointing to see the tragedy that has befallen LDEV.R. I never expected it to fall to these levels. Is there any chance that it will move to at least 2/=

2LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 3:55 pm

SL.Market

SL.Market
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics

morros wrote:Its really disappointing to see the tragedy that has befallen LDEV.R. I never expected it to fall to these levels. Is there any chance that it will move to at least 2/=

Please try to get the benifit of the price down...

"Get Benifit From Any Behavior Of The Market" ..... This is The Line You Follow In SCE as far as I experienced....

3LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 4:04 pm

tubal


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics

Lol! this is exactly what ought to happen to this kind of worthless rights issue everytime. In a more mature market, these rights wouldn't sell for 10 cents.

4LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 4:40 pm

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

No need to buy or sell rights, instead you could have bought 100 shares of LDEV with rights and applied for Additional rights. I am sure there will be plenty of additional rights will be on offer. Then your cost would have been Rs 25/= per share. This is what most smart investors did. Others just bought LDEV shares at very high prices and now struggle with rights not knowing what to do.

It simply shows how smart money take away the dumb money!!

5LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 5:10 pm

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Quibit wrote:No need to buy or sell rights, instead you could have bought 100 shares of LDEV with rights and applied for Additional rights. I am sure there will be plenty of additional rights will be on offer. Then your cost would have been Rs 25/= per share. This is what most smart investors did. Others just bought LDEV shares at very high prices and now struggle with rights not knowing what to do.

It simply shows how smart money take away the dumb money!!

Quibit please explain what is this strategy?

6LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 5:41 pm

thanujav

thanujav
Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic

xhora wrote:
Quibit wrote:No need to buy or sell rights, instead you could have bought 100 shares of LDEV with rights and applied for Additional rights. I am sure there will be plenty of additional rights will be on offer. Then your cost would have been Rs 25/= per share. This is what most smart investors did. Others just bought LDEV shares at very high prices and now struggle with rights not knowing what to do.

It simply shows how smart money take away the dumb money!!

Quibit please explain what is this strategy?

Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

7LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 5:55 pm

Fresher


Moderator
Moderator

people buying .R without knowing what they are were talked about earlier.
maybe 2/- wasn't a bad price considering the .N was trading above 27 but there are going to be a massive no. of shares when the rights are converted.

I think you have time till 16th which is the last date of acceptance and payment. You can hope that the situation improves by then and sell at a less loss.
Since you cannot pay 250,000/- the best option is to sell the rights at the best price and recover something.

8LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 5:59 pm

innam

innam
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.

Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

9LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 5:59 pm

2011_NewComer

2011_NewComer
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

When is the last day we can trade LDEV rights? is it 12th or 13th?

10LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:05 pm

2011_NewComer

2011_NewComer
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

innam wrote:
thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.

Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

If we are not going to convert the rights (if we don't have money to do that), best thing will be to sell it even at 10 cents. Without selling if I keep it and tell the broker not to convert, I won't get anything at all. Am I correct?....Please correct me if I am wrong.

The RENUNCIATION date is mentioned as May 13th. Does that mean 13th is the last day we can sell the rights?

Smile

11LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:07 pm

Fresher


Moderator
Moderator

yes 13th. last date to pay is 16th monday

12LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:08 pm

innam

innam
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

2011_NewComer wrote:
innam wrote:
thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.

Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

If we are not going to convert the rights (if we don't have money to do that), best thing will be to sell it even at 10 cents. Without selling if I keep it and tell the broker not to convert, I won't get anything at all. Am I correct?....Please correct me if I am wrong.

The RENUNCIATION date is mentioned as May 13th. Does that mean 13th is the last day we can sell the rights?

Smile

Once again i repeat for anybody having difficulty reading the post

-If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
-Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday

13LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:15 pm

thanujav

thanujav
Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic

innam wrote:
thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.


Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

Many thanx innam, Now I understand I can sell them at the current price, Anyway I think I am going to loss money from this deal... cause today it went down to 0.70..... without knowing all this I have burnt my hand... he he he Crying or Very sad will it go up to at least Rs.2/- to recover my cost??? Rolling Eyes

14LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:20 pm

econ

econ
Global Moderator

I do not think it will increase the price. its always down the pallam.. because no one is going to convert to shares. every one is trying to get out it.. Very Happy i think it will go down to 0.10 on friday..lol

15LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:28 pm

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

thanujav wrote:
xhora wrote:
Quibit wrote:No need to buy or sell rights, instead you could have bought 100 shares of LDEV with rights and applied for Additional rights. I am sure there will be plenty of additional rights will be on offer. Then your cost would have been Rs 25/= per share. This is what most smart investors did. Others just bought LDEV shares at very high prices and now struggle with rights not knowing what to do.

It simply shows how smart money take away the dumb money!!

Quibit please explain what is this strategy?

Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.
innam wrote:
thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.

Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

If you have bought rights in the market then bad luck, You have only two choices;

a) Sell the Rights before the last day of Trading (Rs 0.50/=) and reduce your loss. (Rs 2/= less Rs 0.50/= ). In any case you will have too pay the difference to your broker.

b) Pay the Broker the Rights Purchase Price (Rs 2/=) and Also Pay for Your Rights (Rs 25/=) and Hope it will go up some day!

I Hope this is clear!

Innam is referring to non subscription of rights and not the payment for the purchase of rights.



Last edited by Quibit on Mon May 09, 2011 6:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

16LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:37 pm

thanujav

thanujav
Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic

Quibit wrote:
thanujav wrote:
xhora wrote:
Quibit wrote:No need to buy or sell rights, instead you could have bought 100 shares of LDEV with rights and applied for Additional rights. I am sure there will be plenty of additional rights will be on offer. Then your cost would have been Rs 25/= per share. This is what most smart investors did. Others just bought LDEV shares at very high prices and now struggle with rights not knowing what to do.

It simply shows how smart money take away the dumb money!!

Quibit please explain what is this strategy?

Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.
innam wrote:
thanujav wrote:
Yes, pls explain I have bought 10,000s LDEV R at Rs.2.00 thinking that I can sell that at least 2.50 on the same day. but I couldn't now my broker saying if I could not sell this I have to pay .... this I really did not know when I purchasing the shares. So, experts pls give me better option to recover from this loss cause I don't have that much money to pay.

The rights give you the option to buy shares BUT you are under no obligation to pay for the rightsif you dont want to convert.

If you don't manage to sell the rights by Friday 2.30pm. CLEARLY TELL THE BROKER THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVERT AND TELL HIM NOT TO PAY THE COMPANY.
If you are not willing to convert the broker has no authority to force you to pay if you clearly tell him that you have no intention to convert.

Of course you may be able to sell the R before Friday.

If you have bought rights in the market then bad luck, You have only two choices;

a) Sell the Rights before the last day of Trading (Rs 0.50/=) and reduce your loss. (Rs 2/= less Rs 0.50/= ). In any case you will have too pay the difference to your broker.

b) Pay the Broker the Rights Purchase Price (Rs 2/=) and Also Pay for Your Rights (Rs 25/=) and Hope it will go up some day!

I Hope this is clear!

Innam is referring to non subscription for right and not the payment for the purchase of right.


thanx quibit, Will it be long term or medium ?? do u think that converting the rights to normal share will do profit for me...? Question

17LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 6:54 pm

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

Rs 25/= share price is not bad in the current context. It all depends what your average cost is. Agrapatana is a mix planation and plantation companies have its ups and downs.

18LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 8:26 pm

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Sorry for asking again but can some one please tell us how to play something like this smartly as previously said by Quibit. I Didn't understand it Question

19LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 9:52 pm

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

xhora wrote:Sorry for asking again but can some one please tell us how to play something like this smartly as previously said by Quibit. I Didn't understand it Question

As a shareholder of a company, together with the right issue form you get another form which you can use to apply for additional rights. If all shareholders do not apply for rights, unsubscribed rights will be distributed among the applicants who made the request for additional rights. In case of csf more than 18% rights were not subscribed and distributed among the applicants. In case of LDEV it is likely be more.

These applicant only pay the subscription value. In case of csf they paid only Rs 5/= and in case of LDEV it will be only Rs 25/=

To get this right, you need to be a shareholder of the company. So you can buy 100 shares and be a shareholder.

20LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 10:08 pm

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

thx alot I think I get it now..

So one who apply for Additional shares will have now have
original 100 LDEV + 1500 from his rights + XXX amount of additional shares
and he will have the lowest average price. Nice Very Happy

21LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Mon May 09, 2011 11:10 pm

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

xhora wrote:thx alot I think I get it now..

So one who apply for Additional shares will have now have
original 100 LDEV + 1500 from his rights + XXX amount of additional shares
and he will have the lowest average price. Nice Very Happy

Yes I think YOU got it right!!! I am really glad....
Every time you make a loss, it's a lesson learnt, you should not repeat the same mistake again. There will be many IPO's in time to come.. Sure you will get all of them right and be a winner.

I lost lot of money b4 I learnt the game... Currently I am buying LDEV normal shares at Rs 27.50 about Rs 2/= higher than the rights price. Hope this is not another lesson I am learning.

22LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Tue May 10, 2011 1:34 am

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

Quibit wrote:
xhora wrote:thx alot I think I get it now..

So one who apply for Additional shares will have now have
original 100 LDEV + 1500 from his rights + XXX amount of additional shares
and he will have the lowest average price. Nice Very Happy

Yes I think YOU got it right!!! I am really glad....
Every time you make a loss, it's a lesson learnt, you should not repeat the same mistake again. There will be many IPO's in time to come.. Sure you will get all of them right and be a winner.

I lost lot of money b4 I learnt the game... Currently I am buying LDEV normal shares at Rs 27.50 about Rs 2/= higher than the rights price. Hope this is not another lesson I am learning.

Summary : It is now cheaper buy rights off market ( now at around RS 0.7) and subscribe if one wishes to.


1) If someone bought 100 LDEV at RS 80 before XR= Cost Rs 8000
If subscribe to 1500 rights = RS 1500*25= 37500
Total = Rs 45500

If someone asks for 25% more rights ( 400 additional rights) at Rs 25 the total average is 27.5

2) If someone bought 100 LDEV at RS 60 before XR= Cost Rs 6000
If subcribe to rights = RS 1500*25= 37500
Total= Rs 43500

If someone asks for 25% more righs ( 400 additional rights) at Rs 25 the total average is 26.75




Last edited by slstock on Tue May 10, 2011 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total

23LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Tue May 10, 2011 5:07 am

ipoguru


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Quibit wrote:
xhora wrote:thx alot I think I get it now..

So one who apply for Additional shares will have now have
original 100 LDEV + 1500 from his rights + XXX amount of additional shares
and he will have the lowest average price. Nice :D

Yes I think YOU got it right!!! I am really glad....
Every time you make a loss, it's a lesson learnt, you should not repeat the same mistake again. There will be many IPO's in time to come.. Sure you will get all of them right and be a winner.

I lost lot of money b4 I learnt the game... Currently I am buying LDEV normal shares at Rs 27.50 about Rs 2/= higher than the rights price. Hope this is not another lesson I am learning.

What's the logic behind to buy LDEV at Rs 27.50

24LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Tue May 10, 2011 8:21 am

Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

Slstock, your calculation is right. But there is no restriction regarding the amount you could apply as addition rights. Shareholder with 100 shares can apply for any number of additional rights. Additional rights available will be allocated as per the amount applied for and cheques value.

Eg:
Shareholder with 100 shares applied for 900,000 shares
Shareholder with 2,000,000 shares applied for 100,000 shares.
Assume available unsubscribed rights are 500,000 shares
Allocation would be 50% of the total additional applications.
This will give 450,000 shares to shareholders who initially had only 100 shares but applied for higher additional rights as against 50,000 shares to the shareholder who owned higher number of shares but applied for lower number of additional rights.

Through this exercise your cost would. Become almost the cost of the rights issue. In case of LDEV it will be Rs 25/=

My logic of buying LDEV at 27.50 is entirely based on demand and supply of LDEV between the period of closure of the rights issue and the conversion of the rights. I believe it will move up during that period. It may prove wrong, We never kno..

25LDEV.R what a disappointment Empty Re: LDEV.R what a disappointment Tue May 10, 2011 8:30 am

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

Quibit wrote:Slstock, your calculation is right. But there is no restriction regarding the amount you could apply as addition rights. Shareholder with 100 shares can apply for any number of additional rights. Additional rights available will be allocated as per the amount applied for and cheques value.

Eg:
Shareholder with 100 shares applied for 900,000 shares
Shareholder with 2,000,000 shares applied for 100,000 shares.
Assume available unsubscribed rights are 500,000 shares
Allocation would be on 50% of the application.
This will give 450,000 shares to shareholders who initially had only 100 shares but applied for higher additional rights as against 50,000 shares to the shareholder who owned higher number of shares but applied for lower number of additional rights.

Through this exercise your cost would. Become almost the cost of the rights issue. In case of LDEV it will be Rs 25/=


Yes that option is there but it all depends on how much of the extra rights you ask for gets allocated. And how much money you can tie up for a little while without a guranteed allocation ( presuming for retailers with no bank gurantees).
Buying rights from current market is a gurantee that you will atleast get that many. Right now a roight is rs 0.7 There is a trade off here in both cases I agree.

This is not a buy recommendation just for info.

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