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FINANCIAL CHRONICLE™ » CORPORATE CHRONICLE™ » Great manipulation

Great manipulation

+14
mono
hunter
mission
xhora
abra12
Chinwi
pushpakumara
Chabbi
ipoguru
Intrinsic
smallville
san1985
Akalanka
Rajitha
18 posters

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1Great manipulation Empty Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 9:08 pm

Rajitha

Rajitha
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics

Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

2Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 9:51 pm

Akalanka

Akalanka
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

does that mean some one is collecting it to book huge profits ?

3Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 9:52 pm

san1985

san1985
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

Im getting sick of this...

Is this really a market...??

Report comes out.

611% increase in PBT.

Price goes down in following day..

What do these people really expect...





4Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:03 pm

smallville

smallville
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics

Market is ruled by some nut heads.. counters go up when they want.. bans are triggered when they want..
Some big ppl might get arranged deals.. underhand cuts for price manipulation..

now we call this wonder of Asia!!!

5Great manipulation Empty Today' ELPL Transactions Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Dear Rajitha,

As per today's trade list the transactions took place as follows;

@ Open - 38.00
Between 9.31 & 9.40 in the range of 37.XX
Between 9.45 & 10.11 in the range of 36.XX
Between 10.22 & 12.10 in the range of 35.XX
Between 12.14 & 12.16 @ 35.50 (10K,17K,20K = Intraday biggest stakes)
Between 12.16 & 02.19 in the range of 35.XX
@ Close - 35.90

Dear Rajitha, Kindly explain your point based on above actual figures, for better understanding. (To understand what really happened today). I am very disappointed as I was expecting a big show today.







Last edited by Intrinsic on Tue May 31, 2011 10:26 pm; edited 2 times in total

6Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:10 pm

ipoguru


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

san1985 wrote:
Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
:no: :no:

Im getting sick of this...

Is this really a market...??

Report comes out.

611% increase in PBT.

Price goes down in following day..

What do these people really expect...



Its very simple manipulators expect profit. Most of the time they get it with crowd following stupid investors in CSE.

7Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:30 pm

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

ipoguru wrote:
san1985 wrote:
Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

Im getting sick of this...

Is this really a market...??

Report comes out.

611% increase in PBT.

Price goes down in following day..

What do these people really expect...



Its very simple manipulators expect profit. Most of the time they get it with crowd following stupid investors in CSE.

Dear ipoguru,

Please educate me. How manipulators get profit when price stagnates or drops ?



8Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:32 pm

Rajitha

Rajitha
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics

Intrinsic wrote:Dear Rajitha,

As per today's trade list the transactions took place as follows;

@ Open - 38.00
Between 9.31 & 9.40 in the range of 37.XX
Between 9.45 & 10.11 in the range of 36.XX
Between 10.22 & 12.10 in the range of 35.XX
Between 12.14 & 12.16 @ 35.50 (10K,17K,20K = Intraday biggest stakes)
Between 12.16 & 02.19 in the range of 35.XX
@ Close - 35.90

Dear Rajitha, Kindly explain your point based on above actual figures, for better understanding. (To understand what really happened today). I am very disappointed as I was expecting a big show today.


I never followed the stock whole day! But in the morning it was going up! I Was at work and was a bit busy! but when I looked ina while there was a 50k Sell order either at Rs 35.50 or 36 and just like when a big order like that comes people try to sell just Rs 0.1 below that and price crumbles and hardly anyone buy as there is a huge order that u can get a piece when ever you need!

IF the guy wanted to sell share at these prices he had ample time in last few days as share traded above 35.50 constantly and if needed he could have just put the sell order if 10k blocks! but instead he waited till extraordinarily results were out above peoples expectations and dumped them all together at a lower price!

9Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:33 pm

Rajitha

Rajitha
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics

Intrinsic wrote:
ipoguru wrote:
san1985 wrote:
Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

Im getting sick of this...

Is this really a market...??

Report comes out.

611% increase in PBT.

Price goes down in following day..

What do these people really expect...



Its very simple manipulators expect profit. Most of the time they get it with crowd following stupid investors in CSE.

Dear ipoguru,

Please educate me. How manipulators get profit when price stagnates or drops ?




Its called collecting! Most HNWI don't care about earning a quick buck when you can collect 100s of thousands of shares of solid companies at dirt cheap prices!

10Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:37 pm

Chabbi

Chabbi
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No

Hi Raji Smile Excellent post from U

Buddy still i dont have Planation stock .. but lats few months i followed certain plantation stocks and most of them are kept below range forcedly.... i think its time to enter for KGAL / MAL & ELPL Smile whn the hunter start to drop thn we cud expect wt ELPL produced growth .. price in CSE ...

what you think ??? time to buy them ??

Cheerz

11Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 10:50 pm

Akalanka

Akalanka
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Rajitha wrote:
Intrinsic wrote:Dear Rajitha,

As per today's trade list the transactions took place as follows;

@ Open - 38.00
Between 9.31 & 9.40 in the range of 37.XX
Between 9.45 & 10.11 in the range of 36.XX
Between 10.22 & 12.10 in the range of 35.XX
Between 12.14 & 12.16 @ 35.50 (10K,17K,20K = Intraday biggest stakes)
Between 12.16 & 02.19 in the range of 35.XX
@ Close - 35.90

Dear Rajitha, Kindly explain your point based on above actual figures, for better understanding. (To understand what really happened today). I am very disappointed as I was expecting a big show today.


I never followed the stock whole day! But in the morning it was going up! I Was at work and was a bit busy! but when I looked ina while there was a 50k Sell order either at Rs 35.50 or 36 and just like when a big order like that comes people try to sell just Rs 0.1 below that and price crumbles and hardly anyone buy as there is a huge order that u can get a piece when ever you need!

IF the guy wanted to sell share at these prices he had ample time in last few days as share traded above 35.50 constantly and if needed he could have just put the sell order if 10k blocks! but instead he waited till extraordinarily results were out above peoples expectations and dumped them all together at a lower price!

Nice observations..
this very same thing happened in UBC yesterday.. As UBC was climbing .10 by .10 from about 29.10 like there came a huge sell order of 98000 @ 30.00 when the bulls just hit in to 30.00 so after that the price declined .10 by .10 as u have mentioned above.

That sell order was of 18 or 20 splits. how about in this case.. If some one place several orders at same price in different times does it appears as a one split or several ... ..?? need some clarification
Question

12Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:03 pm

pushpakumara


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Dear Rajitha

For greater understanding on Manipulation, why one will sell a large quantity of his shares at a lower price when there is a possible up trend for that share? One possibility I can think of is he would have come to his final day of T+ 5 and then he may be in obvious frame of mind in selling his shares at a loss. But then this has had happened in the morning. May be he has exceeded T+5.


Like to hear from you as it is good to know for better understanding of trading environment.

13Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:08 pm

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Rajitha wrote: Did anyone witnessed ELPL order book today! Now thats what you call manipulation to keep the price down! IT was starting to shhot up from 36 and went to 38! All of a sudden some big gun came in sold few and put a 50k sell order at Rs 36! After that whole day share was stagnant!
No No


+ rep from me


14Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:15 pm

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

pushpakumara wrote:Dear Rajitha

For greater understanding on Manipulation, why one will sell a large quantity of his shares at a lower price when there is a possible up trend for that share? One possibility I can think of is he would have come to his final day of T+ 5 and then he may be in obvious frame of mind in selling his shares at a loss. But then this has had happened in the morning. May be he has exceeded T+5.


Like to hear from you as it is good to know for better understanding of trading environment.

What I understood was by sacrificing a smaller stake at medium price, these HNWIs are eying to grab a bigger chunk at a lower price.






15Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:33 pm

Chinwi

Chinwi
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics

For last few weeks Asha Phillip was instructing their customers to Buy ELPL . They valued it over 100.00.
Many bought accordingly but some people waited for reports. I think some HNWI / organized gang wanted to collect it, without giving much profit for others who bought it in advance.
When you see prices going down most of the people give up hopes and sell off.
Others are there to collect . Then, they will decide the time and date to take it to the real value.

16Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:42 pm

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Chinwi wrote:For last few weeks Asha Phillip was instructing their customers to Buy ELPL . They valued it over 100.00.
Many bought accordingly but some people waited for reports. I think some HNWI / organized gang wanted to collect it, without giving much profit for others who bought it in advance.
When you see prices going down most of the people give up hopes and sell off.
Others are there to collect . Then, they will decide the time and date to take it to the real value.

At least, this post is going to be a good news for the guys who are holding them right now.


17Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:45 pm

abra12


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Sometimes I feel like the T+5 rule also help the big guys.All what they have to do is control the price in a low level just for three days and all investors on credit would start to dump in extremely low levels.

18Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:46 pm

Rajitha

Rajitha
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics

Akalanka wrote:
Nice observations..
this very same thing happened in UBC yesterday.. As UBC was climbing .10 by .10 from about 29.10 like there came a huge sell order of 98000 @ 30.00 when the bulls just hit in to 30.00 so after that the price declined .10 by .10 as u have mentioned above.

That sell order was of 18 or 20 splits. how about in this case.. If some one place several orders at same price in different times does it appears as a one split or several ... ..?? need some clarification
Question
well it was one split and when I saw it it was over 48k shares 1 split ( So not like UBC coming towards big price check with many splits) ! Problem with this order was that he dumped it quite lower than the trading price which started and trading! It was quite obvious the way days trade started it would have gone up and this was a share that shot to Rs 47 even before it got caught in a price band few months ago!

PS:- Pushpakumara I already gave why people do this few posts before you posted m8!

19Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Tue May 31, 2011 11:52 pm

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

pushpakumara wrote:Dear Rajitha

For greater understanding on Manipulation, why one will sell a large quantity of his shares at a lower price when there is a possible up trend for that share? One possibility I can think of is he would have come to his final day of T+ 5 and then he may be in obvious frame of mind in selling his shares at a loss. But then this has had happened in the morning. May be he has exceeded T+5.


Like to hear from you as it is good to know for better understanding of trading environment.

Demonstration with an example:
They know that price of XYZ has potential to go beyond 100.
Now it's 80 and they hold 10,000.

They dump at 60 and crowd will follow and price will settle at around 50.
now they can buy back 12,000 at 50 from that sales proceeds. eventually price goes upto 100

If you consider the broker charges the profits would be
1- buy 80 sell 60 10000 shares = -215680
2- buy 50 sell 100 12000 shares = 579840
overall profit = 364160

where are if you sell at 100 the 10,000 you had from 80 you'll only make 179840.
So we can see that manipulators has made a huge profit from the foolish retailers.

20Great manipulation Empty Asha Phillip - Key stocks to watch Tue May 31, 2011 11:54 pm

mission


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Chinwi wrote:For last few weeks Asha Phillip was instructing their customers to Buy ELPL . They valued it over 100.00.
Many bought accordingly but some people waited for reports. I think some HNWI / organized gang wanted to collect it, without giving much profit for others who bought it in advance.
When you see prices going down most of the people give up hopes and sell off.
Others are there to collect . Then, they will decide the time and date to take it to the real value.

this is for the people who didn't read the report as yet.

Refer link - http://ashaphillip.net/reports/Stocks%20to%20Watch%20-%2020%2005%202011%20_2_.pdf



Last edited by mission on Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total

21Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 am

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

This one explains it the best
http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t4302-the-dream-i-saw-about-kgal-prices

22Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:18 am

hunter

hunter
Moderator
Moderator

Guys,

Can we think about ways of outsmarting these manipulators?
In order to win;
Should we fight them OR
should we join them?

My theory is (When driving my car) if you want to overtake someone, first you have follow him.

23Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:02 am

Intrinsic


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

hunter wrote:Guys,

Can we think about ways of outsmarting these manipulators?
In order to win;
Should we fight them OR
should we join them?

My theory is (When driving my car) if you want to overtake someone, first you have follow him.

Good theory! But the problem is that a Maruti can hardly overtake a Hummer !

better join ! But how ?




24Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:20 pm

pushpakumara


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

xhora wrote:
pushpakumara wrote:Dear Rajitha

For greater understanding on Manipulation, why one will sell a large quantity of his shares at a lower price when there is a possible up trend for that share? One possibility I can think of is he would have come to his final day of T+ 5 and then he may be in obvious frame of mind in selling his shares at a loss. But then this has had happened in the morning. May be he has exceeded T+5.


Like to hear from you as it is good to know for better understanding of trading environment.

Demonstration with an example:
They know that price of XYZ has potential to go beyond 100.
Now it's 80 and they hold 10,000.

They dump at 60 and crowd will follow and price will settle at around 50.
now they can buy back 12,000 at 50 from that sales proceeds. eventually price goes upto 100

If you consider the broker charges the profits would be
1- buy 80 sell 60 10000 shares = -215680
2- buy 50 sell 100 12000 shares = 579840
overall profit = 364160

where are if you sell at 100 the 10,000 you had from 80 you'll only make 179840.
So we can see that manipulators has made a huge profit from the foolish retailers.

Thanks Xhora for the well executed reply with an example. Quite understood and got that idea into my system.

Although it is a risky venture may be very same people jacking up the prices so that others to think that shares prices are moving up and making them to take a hasty decision to buy it.

I have noticed these trading patterns when one share is on upward trend then suddenly somebody put a lower bid to bring the price down. Then for a while the share prices are sliding down and then suddenly make upward move at a faster phase and then stops at a high point. The guys who bought at the high point will have pay the price for the tricks of these so called "Manipulators".

25Great manipulation Empty Re: Great manipulation Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:35 pm

mono

mono
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics

I'm not sure if this is manipulation. SINS was pure manipulations. Someone wanted to exit at 130. the brokerages sensed an opportunity. So every brokerage bought enmasse at that price. All of my brokerages called/texted me asking me to buy heavily at 130. then they pushed the stock in the morning and dumped at 150+. good profits under 24hrs.

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