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FINANCIAL CHRONICLE™ » EXPERT CHRONICLE™ » A walk down memory lane .....

A walk down memory lane .....

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The Alchemist


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
I fished out an old Colombo Brokers Association Hand book of Rupee companies from 1979-1983.
If you need a blast from the past, I will be happy to give you statistics from that era.

Kicking it of with details for Buki in FY 1978/1979

Profit - Rs 2.5 million
Number of shares issued - 100,000 (increased to 400,000 in 1979/1980)
NAV - Rs 333
EPS - Rs 25
Dividend - Rs 12.50
Share Price as at 31st March 1979 - Rs 55

They dont come so cheap anymore i guess ! Smile

adding further.... (1979 details)

1 usd = Rs 15.55 in 1979 (34 years later 1 usd = 126)
Gold = usd 307 per ounce cumulative average price (34 years later = approx 1400 per ounce)
Prime Havelock Road real estate (30 perch + house) = Rs 1.8 Million (Today Rs 150 Million ?)

Rs 55 invested in Buki in 1979 = Rs 720,000 in 2013
usd 3.50 invested in Buki in 1979 = usd 5700 in 2013

In 1979, Microsoft IPO happened at usd 27 per share
In 2000, Microsoft was trading split adjusted at usd 3375, up 125 times in 21 years !



Last edited by The Alchemist on Sat May 25, 2013 12:00 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post Sun May 26, 2013 2:11 pm by Bond

I know this is unlisted but I remember Capital Maharaja had a turnover of 4 billion .... yes 4 billion... in 1990

Post Sun May 26, 2013 2:20 pm by Slstock

Do you know how much now?


@Bond wrote:I know this is unlisted but I remember Capital Maharaja had a turnover of 4 billion .... yes 4 billion... in 1990

Post Sun May 26, 2013 2:41 pm by Bond

@slstock wrote:Do you know how much now?


@Bond wrote:I know this is unlisted but I remember Capital Maharaja had a turnover of 4 billion .... yes 4 billion... in 1990

Correction it was 5 billion in 1991

http://www.capitalmaharaja.com/index.php/the-group.html

Right now it would be around 100 billion plus. The S-Lon would be the primary driver
We can only guess what they earn

They also had bottling rights for Pepsi which they sold.



Post Sun May 26, 2013 5:07 pm by stocks hunter

This is what i'm always telling here. Share trading is purely for the future. It's an investment for the future.

All the above mentioned share prices are without dividends, right issues, bonus issues. The return should be more than this.

But there are some pundits here whom are specialised for trading and these people are trying to take the forum to their hands. That's why they were against me when I mentioned about VONE a future winning company. Just see their developments for the last 4 years.

Forum like this should educate people to invest but not for trading or gambling. Is it happening here.??????????

avatar

Post Sun May 26, 2013 5:16 pm by stocks hunter

Friends,

Don't use your brain too much for searching data in 70 or 80. Just see 4 years back BFL was Rs 18. 6 years back DIST was Rs 3.50. ACAP was Rs 2.50. HASU was at Rs 20 levels. CONN at Rs 3.00 levels etc etc.......

I would like to mention VONE by 5 years time will reach to Rs ... levels. It is almost an investment company like CINV and GUAR. Just check prices of these two couple of years back.

avatar

Post Sun May 26, 2013 5:22 pm by Bond

@stocks hunter wrote:Friends,

Don't use your brain too much for searching data in 70 or 80. Just see 4 years back BFL was Rs 18. 6 years back DIST was Rs 3.50. ACAP was Rs 2.50. HASU was at Rs 20 levels. CONN at Rs 3.00 levels etc etc.......

I would like to mention VONE by 5 years time will reach to Rs ... levels. It is almost an investment company like CINV and GUAR. Just check prices of these two couple of years back.

Do you even know what VONE is? It is a apparel holding firm. That is the core asset. That LB Finance and ROCELL

Others are investments not subsidiaries..... hence minority interest. But if you like VONE why not OGL or TJL .... they are better priced.

VONE bought Orit Apparel for 700m shares and you buy VONE for huge amounts.... who is more stupid Question

http://www.just-style.com/news/vallibel-one-invests-726-m-in-orit-apparels_id111509.aspx



Last edited by Bond on Sun May 26, 2013 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

Redbulls

Post Sun May 26, 2013 5:24 pm by Redbulls

@stocks hunter wrote:This is what i'm always telling here. Share trading is purely for the future. It's an investment for the future

Forum like this should educate people to invest but not for trading or gambling. Is it happening here.??????????

Happening here and there but most of us are not recognising the contributors or encouraging them.

As my guru always tell,
Bear market is always for investors and bull market for the smart traders and pigs (where smart investors can unlock their investment for cash to wait for the next bear) for in a market like CSE.(where you can't play shorting or going for long - may be these facilities will be here in future)

avatar

Post Sun May 26, 2013 6:46 pm by stocks hunter

Vallibel One - spirit of success - just see

51% - Holding in RCL
51% (More through indirect) - LB Finance
51% - Holding in Delmege (pvt)ltd
50% - Holding in Orit Apperels
100% - Holding in Greener Water ltd(Hotel project)


Indirect Holding

CERA - 76% owned by RCL
LWL - 62% owned by CERA
TILE - 54% Owned by LWL

Further HOPL and many more investments are coming under CERA.

Interesting thing here is STUPIDS can't see these developments. They only know a simple thing and bark accordingly. gamblers don't like these things. Time will tell who is correct or wrong.....

smallville

Post Sun May 26, 2013 8:00 pm by smallville

@stocks hunter wrote:Vallibel One - spirit of success - just see

51% - Holding in RCL
51% (More through indirect) - LB Finance
51% - Holding in Delmege (pvt)ltd
50% - Holding in Orit Apperels
100% - Holding in Greener Water ltd(Hotel project)


Indirect Holding

CERA - 76% owned by RCL
LWL - 62% owned by CERA
TILE - 54% Owned by LWL

Further HOPL and many more investments are coming under CERA.

Interesting thing here is STUPIDS can't see these developments. They only know a simple thing and bark accordingly. gamblers don't like these things. Time will tell who is correct or wrong.....

Why ur so upset that VONE has not got any prominence just becuz ur telling about it? LOL!! Its normal dude.. There are favourites and non-favourites, there are speculatives, hot stocks, asset plays, etc... So we should not call names just seeing others dont want our favourites Wink

I just identified VONE a year back and had a chat with a veteran investor (who has had more than 10 years investment experience) about it as well. True VONE can become next JKH and we should be lucky that we can buy this under 20 still. With all their developments and the latest acquisition of Tile they hold the monopoly of Tile market, now they position themselves to be a better diversified company getting into many areas.

So its just a matter of choice.. Ppl have many choices to mess with in CSE. There are other diversified holdings as well. So why why why VONE????? Its just a choice we make.. To make that choice, one just need to position himself in correct path looking at all the odds he's up against with.

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Post Mon May 27, 2013 6:11 am by stocks hunter

@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 7:13 am by Bond

@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

You have just confirmed what I said. VONE is just a holder of apparels, LB Finance and Rocell. It's minority investments are in banks.

Holding firms add value by getting dividends and setting up businesses. This is what happened at Carsons.
But DP who holds 800 million shares prefers to pay out those dividends at 0.3 per share

I will invest in vone the day he starts to use those profits to set up businesses under vone. 500 m rupees goes a long way and there are many ways he can expand by using this money

Instead he pays tax at multiple levels multiple times. Why can't you see this?


Perhaps if DP was smarter he would get TILE SAMP LBFINANCE ROCELL to buy his entire stake in Vone. Then he will exit Vone with 20 billion rupees but still control these firms. Through a personal holding and directorship. Just like Carsons Razz

smallville

Post Mon May 27, 2013 7:53 am by smallville

@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

We cant shift mentalities.. I learnt it the hard way.. The idea of this forum is to educate each other, especially we have a social responsibility to safeguard the investor crowd in SL I believe. New comers to be given a doze of our knowledge to not to fall into traps.. So we talk about many shares and highlight our views and anyone who reads the posts can also see whose saying what..

Its up to the readers to decide whether VONE is an emerging giant or not.. Its up to them to decide whether they wanna try 500 shares in VONE.. Its totally up to them to analyse whether what we talk in here is valid or not.. After all everyone got brains that they can use for a minute Wink

So we cannot stop ppl being negative or positive about specific counters.. Time will decide..

As we speak, what BOND has expressed is also a valid point... The money should be smartly used at the growth stage rather than allocating good dividends.

avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 7:57 am by stocks hunter

Its coming under diversified holdings sector. as per u purchasing JKH is not a good idea? investing in CARS is not a good idea. investing CTHR is risky?

JKH issued at Rs 10 was not a favourite among locals when it was trading around Rs 50 levels. CARS was also like that and CTHR also followed that. Just see their position today. companies in the diversified sector always trade at a premium. Their value increases day by day as per the performance of its holding companies.

dividends are only a minor income for holding companies.

not necessary to argue. u keep a copy of my advise in ur desktop and I will keep ur advice in my desktop. we can see what will happen in future. game close.

correction - green water ownership ( hotel project) - 100%

since DP owns majority he will continuously add value to VONE.

Now DP owns almost close to 50% in HAYL as well. may be he might bring the HAYL under VONE in future as well. WHO KNOWS?

Slstock

Post Mon May 27, 2013 8:07 am by Slstock


There is some truth in what you say. Also one should analyze and see whether any of the individual companies RCL,LFIN, SAMP can give better return than VONE to an investor. Will they grown their assets/nav and earning at a faster rate. ( something to thin k about)

Anyway Bond.


But for benefit of others i think it is better you explain more what you mean by setting up a bussines vs having existing businesses under the portfolio. Also better to compare JKH/CARS with VONE to say why VONE is different than others.



@Bond wrote:
@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

You have just confirmed what I said. VONE is just a holder of apparels, LB Finance and Rocell. It's minority investments are in banks.

Holding firms add value by getting dividends and setting up businesses. This is what happened at Carsons.
But DP who holds 800 million shares prefers to pay out those dividends at 0.3 per share

I will invest in vone the day he starts to use those profits to set up businesses under vone. 500 m rupees goes a long way and there are many ways he can expand by using this money

Instead he pays tax at multiple levels multiple times. Why can't you see this?


Perhaps if DP was smarter he would get TILE SAMP LBFINANCE ROCELL to buy his entire stake in Vone. Then he will exit Vone with 20 billion rupees but still control these firms. Through a personal holding and directorship. Just like Carsons Razz

traderathome

Post Mon May 27, 2013 8:09 am by traderathome

@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?
500 not enough bounce need more say 10 to 25 thousand min. Smile

traderathome

Post Mon May 27, 2013 8:12 am by traderathome

VONE giving Good Entry Point around 18-19.5 Areas for a 5-0 Pattern...If you can collect @ these levels then wait for exit signal to unload Very Happy

Slstock

Post Mon May 27, 2013 8:14 am by Slstock

think he is not talking about short term trading. He is talking about several year investment.



@traderathome wrote:VONE giving Good Entry Point around 18-19.5 Areas for a 5-0 Pattern...If you can collect @ these levels then wait for exit signal to unload Very Happy

smallville

Post Mon May 27, 2013 8:25 am by smallville

Bottom-line improvements of RCL may benefit VONE but it adds more value to RCL's own growth. VONE may benefit from the increased amounts of dividends of RCL (if they give)
Given the scenario that tile market is a monopoly, RCL can come up as the market leader.

chamith

Post Mon May 27, 2013 11:28 am by chamith

@smallville wrote:VONE may benefit from the increased amounts of dividends of RCL (if they give)

Small,
Even if RCL decided not to give dividends for next 10 years, VONE benefits. Its not only RCL's Dividend that counts as income for VONE. In group accounts, the group accounts for the profit from subsidiaries attributable to parent in proportionality to its holding %. In other words irrespective of dividends, All of RCL's profit will be in VONE Books, and 50% will be deducted as Non Controlling interest.

Bone,
It's totally wrong what you mention about, getting subsidiaries (RCL, LFIN etc) to buy parent's (VONE) shares and then intend to control the subsidiaries still.

avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 am by Bond

I will answer the above questions with the following. For Vone to be successful it needs to reinvest those hefty dividends by building its own businesses.

DPs recent acquisitions have been at a higher price and to date the best acquisition was Orit Apparel.

The most expensive acquisition was Delmege which was at 2b followed by SAMP LBFINANCE and Rocell at there 52 week highs or there abouts.

Regardless of the loss Vone can still improve if it invests those dividends wisely. Distributing it results in corporate tax at 2 levels and personal tax at individual level.

DP can do many things..... He could invest in sugar which we import at annual cost of 50 billion.


Rocell and other investments can invest in Vone thorough there own subsidiaries. Not directly but through own subsidiaries.


Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 12:05 pm by The Alchemist

@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 12:29 pm by Bond

@The Alchemist wrote:
@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

Have you got the old shareholder register of Carson related firms? Love to know who bought who first .... Was it Bukit or Carsons?

I suspect Bukit was initially controlled and then it bought Carsons .... that is instead of giving funds to minority shareholders it solidified the strength of a controlling shareholder

Chinwi

Post Mon May 27, 2013 12:53 pm by Chinwi

I agree with this and that was the reason I kept VONE away from me.

@Bond wrote:DPs recent acquisitions have been at a higher price and to date the best acquisition was Orit Apparel.

The most expensive acquisition was Delmege which was at 2b followed by SAMP LBFINANCE and Rocell at there 52 week highs or there abouts.

Somehow, I feel VONE is still trading at current low prices due to the same reason. With time, it will gradually reach to a better valuation when its high priced susbs perform well and add value.
Some times we may regret not buying it at current prices.

Backstage

Post Mon May 27, 2013 1:50 pm by Backstage

What about DP/NP overt political patronizing ? They all do it but you wouldn't find Hari Selvanathan or Susantha Rathnayake being appointed deputy ministers or doing the cha cha with Namal Rajapaksa. So when you talk about long term, there are other aspects that also come into consideration.

avatar

Post Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 pm by The Alchemist

@Bond wrote:
@The Alchemist wrote:
@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

Have you got the old shareholder register of Carson related firms? Love to know who bought who first .... Was it Bukit or Carsons?

I suspect Bukit was initially controlled and then it bought Carsons .... that is instead of giving funds to minority shareholders it solidified the strength of a controlling shareholder

No, I dont have any old shareholder register of Cars & Buki.

What i know is the following -

Carsons 60-70 % & RIT 20-30 % owned the original 5 Malaysian Palm Oil Estate Companies i.e. Selinsing, Goodhope, Indo-Malay, Shalimar-Malay & Bukit Darah.

Shalimar Malay owned approx 40 % of Carsons & Bukit Darah owned approx 20 % of Carsons, through its wholly held subsidiary Federal Securities.

In 1996, The above 5 companies (along with Carsons) formed an Investment Company called Shalimar Developments Bhnd registered in Indonesia and invested & ventured out into Indonesia and started their first Plantation called PT Agro Indomas.

In 2003, Bukit Darah sold its Malaysian estate for approx usd 35 Million and invested part money in another plantation in Indonesia called PT Agro Bukit (along with Shalimar Developments). At the same time, Shalimar Malay sold its 40 % stake in Carsons part to Buki and Part to Selvanathan Holding Companies.

In 2009, RIT sold its (20-30 %) stakes in Selinsing, Indo-Malay, Shalimar & Goodhope to newly formed Singapore Plantation Holding Company called GoodHope Asia Holdings (GHAHL).
Buki & Carsons also transferred all their plantation holding shares to Goodhope Asia in exchange for shares.

Now, GHAHL is the Groups Plantation Holding Company.
Carsons owns approx 53 % of GHAHL, Buki owns 35 %, and Rim Capital owns 12 %.
Buki owns approx 45 % of Carsons.
RIT owns 20.2 % of Buki
Guar & Cinv owns 100 % of RIT. (Guar owns 64 % of Cinv)
Carsons owns 67 % of Guar.


sriranga

Post Mon May 27, 2013 3:20 pm by sriranga

http://www.carsoncumberbatch.com/about_us/our_history.php

http://listofcompanies.co.in/bukit-darah-plc-the/

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Post Mon May 27, 2013 3:45 pm by Bond

Thanks but I was looking for the time when Grand Central Holdings was sold or nationalised (?). Was the famous Upali a shareholder(?)

It was around that time that Sri Krishna Corporation started buying into Carsons ie after Upali's death.

I was once told about Upali Berhad that owned the Kuril Plantations acquired all the plantations under Grand Central. Was this the coffee plantation that Carsons had. Is that today's Shalimar Malay?

Book below tells a different story (?). Upali Investments was sold to Grand Central. Perhaps this happened after his death

Overseas Corporate Structures, Which Hide 'real Owners': Foreign Business By Nihal Ameresekere (2012)........... just google book search

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Post Mon May 27, 2013 3:59 pm by Gaja

@ Bond,

Is the Upali's stake sold to Carsons or other shareholder (i can't recall his name need to check with my uncle) who jointly controlled the company with the Jesuthsan Family sold to Sri Krishna Corporation?

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Post Mon May 27, 2013 4:31 pm by Bond

To be more clear Carsons owned a firm called Grand Central that was listed in London. It held most of the plantations in lanka and some British plantations in Malay. Theses plantations came under a trust within a holding company... Long story here!

This is what I heard:
This firm was later sold to Upali's Peacock Limited London which also owned his horse. Later it was transferred to Kuril Plantations Hong Kong.

Upali then used to travel often to his plantations in Malay.

From somewhere these plantations were transferred back to Carsons and he sold his stake. This must have happened after he died.

But as I said the above book may make things clearer. I just don't have the time read it.

sriranga

Post Mon May 27, 2013 5:05 pm by sriranga

@Bond wrote:To be more clear Carsons owned a firm called Grand Central that was listed in London. It held most of the plantations in lanka and some British plantations in Malay. Theses plantations came under a trust within a holding company... Long story here!

This is what I heard:
This firm was later sold to Upali's Peacock Limited London which also owned his horse. Later it was transferred to Kuril Plantations Hong Kong.

Upali then used to travel often to his plantations in Malay.

From somewhere these plantations were transferred back to Carsons and he sold his stake. This must have happened after he died.

But as I said the above book may make things clearer. I just don't have the time read it.

Read this also
http://help.com/post/24361-upali-wijewardene

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