Discussion on Alternative Investment

B/proof,

I had a massage from you, but i cant reply you through a private massage since i haven't made the required number of posts to the forum to qualify for that.
What you can do is, send a massage to this e-mail sudee32000@yahoo.com

Monster,

35,000 is a reasonable rate. How ever the rate depend on the size and the maturity. Size & maturity are two independent factors. Some believe that when the trees are big in size they are matured, that wrong.
Maturity & size mainly depend on the soil, variety and whether.
My father was a timber trader. He has bought teak trees for even more than 100,000 in the past. But such trees are no more.
People cut them even before they are matured.

What is important is the maturity. Average size tree which has matured worth more than a big size tree which has not matured.

I think it is good to mention this as well which has a Environmental effect:
Cutting trees is not good for environment, but with the increase in population it has to be done. Hence what we should do is, we must try to get the maximum use from a tree when it is cut. Furniture made out of timber obtained from Immature trees are of low quality and will not last long. Its just like, "gahatath naha, badatath naha".

Most of the crazy vendors in Moratuwa is one such party who encourage this bad practice of cutting young trees. However, people are also eager to get money soon, backed by thousands of needs they have.

Be mindful if you buy furniture from Moratuwa. However, this also should be said. Even though they are not high quality, still they can be bought at half of the prices that you find in big stores.

illuminati wrote:Please please don,t fall prey to this racket. This is similar to pyramid scams. All these mango, teak, sandalwood plantations, are real scams that rip you off. As monster suggested if you want buy a few acres of land.

100 % agree. We should not waste our hard earned money for nothing.

A very usefull discussion.

Sudee, appreciate ur knowledge sharing effect.

Hope this link would also help for ur decisions.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t15824-sadaharitha-plantation?highlight=sadaharitha+plantation

illuminati wrote:Please please don,t fall prey to this racket. This is similar to pyramid scams. All these mango, teak, sandalwood plantations, are real scams that rip you off. As monster suggested if you want buy a few acres of land.

I don't know about the mango & sandalwood. But i'm aware of green field, coconut & teak plantation.
Tell me, how this is similar to a "PYRAMID SCAMS" ???????????????

(in fact i would have posted this first)

I don't accept the methodology followed by green field. That's it. Coz following that method, i'm doubtful whether the owners can have a SUSTAINABLE COCONUT PLANTATION.

Its simply due to this.
1. I don't accept the variety they plant.
2. I don't accept the water preservation method they use.
3. I don't agree on the time at which they hand over the land to owner.

Teak plantation - I should tell you that this is the investment you can make in a plantation with lowest investment, but very long term. At least 20 years. Though the life time is high, i would still consider this as a low risk investment.
What you can do is, buy yourself a bare land and clean it.(use machines as far as possible. Minimize the labour) Then during the rainy season plant the nurseries.
By the time rain is over they are well rooted.
Just let them grow by them selves. Once the dry season comes some plants will die. That's normal. If possible replant them.
Simply because of this very distinctive two seasons only we can get good quality teak. If it were to have the same whether through out the year, we can't have good teak.

Bi annually or at least annually cut the extra branches and clean the weeds.
(Get one or two people to cut the branches and hire a tractor with rotary disk to clean the weeds)
Don't cut all the branches like some does expecting trees to grow taller. Without sufficient leaves the tree cannot absorb the required sun rays and produce the required food. Ultimately what happens is the tree will not be matured on time.

This is all about teak investment.

Dear Sudee,

Thanks for the valuable info and understand u have a good knowledge in coconut plantation.

i have followings to clarify with expert person like you....if you dont mind ...

* Where can i buy the good coconut plants and what is the cost of the plant
* How many plants per acre
*What will be the annual total cost per plant including maintenance/fertilizer
* if there any insect affection where can I get the info of the treatments

*Average nuts per plant per year

* Do I need to station a person from day one to…..

And anything you know about coconut plantation……….

Once again I thank you for knowledge sharing…….

Thanks…….

Call CRI and ask about the availability. There are newly developed varieties. But the problem is all the plants are sold to close friends at most of the times.
I think CIC also has.
What we do is, select the average size nuts (not so big ones, coz then the no of nuts per bunch will be low) and plant them.

Anyway, im not too confident with those new varieties, i wud say like this.
New varieties - For:
harvest start within 3 yrs (approx) normal variety - 5 yrs
No of nuts per bunch 10-20 (approx) normal variety - 7 - 15 (these are practical figures. If you ask CRI, they will tell high nos.)
Tree height - relatively short Normal variety - You no the height of a coconut tree, right?. In a way short tree is good coz it takes short time & easy to pluck the nuts. Bcoz ppl are scard to find for plucking coconut.

Against:
This nut is not much suitable for D/C coz hard to remove the shell.
The amount of milk & Oil that can be extracted is relatively low.
(thatz y Middle east countries buy coconut from us even at high prices, when they are avaible at low prices in India. So i doubt whether new variesties will have the same demand. Now only the harvest from these start to come to the mkt so have to wait n see for some time what is happening to them.)
Short trees means you can't sell the trees once they are old.

Cost per plant - LKR 45 - 150. (45 means plants with out packets, but still gud. I plant them. since they are without a packet, should be planted within few days once they are bought)

You can harvest 8 times per year. Normally one bunch per month. So some harvest at two months interval n cut two bunches. We are harvesting at 6 weeks interval. From most of the trees we cut 2 bunches and from some only 1.

You should have a station person. Cz if you can identify insect afection soon then it can be treated. To identify them promtly, trees should be frequntly visited. (daily or two days interval)
I will tell u, Finding a gud station person is nothing other than ur LUCK.
(coz, this is a critical factor)

If you have any doubt mail me. Cz admin might chase me if im going taking too much abt coconut but not on equity.

Useful information about coconut plantation. How many trees can be planted in an acre. Around 50 - 60?

@Sudee, thanks for the info.. these short varitey if i am correct called as hybrid plants ?? other thing we can plant intercop like Banana,Papol .. between the cocount trees and one of my friend has plant teak for the fence..from that you can earn extra income...

I forgot to tell that.
Earlier it was 70 per acre, then became 75 and even 80 can be planted if ur not thinking of having any other cultivation among the coconut. I think CRI will not recommend 80, but what i say is try to get the max benefit out of it if ur having only 1 or 2 acre.

Better to mention this also.
Coconut development board gives lot of subsidies as well, which people are not aware much. They give subsidies for,
1.Cutting down & removing dead or old trees which gives low harvest.
2. Planting nurseries for them.
3. Making husk pits
4. Planting "gliksiriya" (i don't know the correct name) Leaf of this tree is a good fertilizer.
5. Making land improvements (drainage lines)

Anyway, its government who gives them, so you know their efficiency. Some times they say that treasury has not allocated adequate funds and so on.

In addition, they also give 1m & above loans for any cultivation. This is really good because the interest is about 5%. In addition, the interest will be paid back on the successful completion of the loan. A friend of mine got this benefit. Then only i also got confident in this. Loan amount depend on your land size. I think if u have 10 acre u can get about 1m. Loans are administered by Peoples' bank, so lot of paper work to get them.

manula wrote:@Sudee, thanks for the info.. these short varitey if i am correct called as hybrid plants ?? other thing we can plant intercop like Banana,Papol .. between the cocount trees and one of my friend has plant teak for the fence..from that you can earn extra income...

Yeah yeah, what ever the size of the land, should have teak around it. We normally call it teak fence. That adds extra value to the estate as well.

If inter crops are also under taken, then no of coconut trees has to be abt 70 pa. Other thing i have to mention is, if your doing coconut there should be a station person. And if ur thinking of these inter crops, this station person has to be even better. And depending on the extend of these cultivation, additional workers have to be hired. Managing these workers, finding good station person are very difficult.
If you believe that u can handle the man power smartly, then estate management is not difficult.

Yep, they are hybrid varieties.

It is wonderful to have someone who literally knows his "nuts" so generously sharing information. A big thank you Sudee.
A lot of people underestimates the importance of the station person, I know a lot of people whose plantation dreams have become nightmares on that issue. There are a lot of so called managers who move from one ripoff to another. Absentee landlords are fast becoming a thing of the past.

One more question if I may ? How many teak trees to an acre ?

hii experts...thank god i started a worthy discussion over the investors...i am still looking at some positive or negetive whether to invest on a plantation...keep enlighten the discussion...thanks for everybody who contributed the headings.....

and people like work in oversease can anybody recomend a firm that can be reliable for investing please give ur oppenion on this matter.....

Dear Sudee,

Fist of all i must say BIG THANK YOU for sharing valuable and more practical info.

However it seems this topic is very interesting and useful for many in here...specially to me..

Yes i have to few more to clarify with you..BUT if i'm post more and more questions admin might chase both of us from the forum.

However it is good to have discussion like this and it's very very useful for newcomers for particular field (Plantation)...

Unfortunately i'm not allowed to post you a private message in here.

If you don't mind can i have your e mail id then i can send you through....

Once again A BIG THANK YOU AND HATS OFF FOR YOUR GREAT WORK..

God bless.......

Dear kelumhewage,

Thanks for starting a useful discussion like this........

I think there is no harm to discuss these type of matters in this forum. It's very useful for certain members though the discussion is not purely equity investment related. I hope Admin would agree with me.

We used to discuss many (unwanted) stuffs in this forum, such as politics, sports, gossips and many more. I believe this is a useful discussion.

sudee, I admire your knowledge in this sector.

sajcolombo wrote:Dear Sudee,

Fist of all i must say BIG THANK YOU for sharing valuable and more practical info.

However it seems this topic is very interesting and useful for many in here...specially to me..

Yes i have to few more to clarify with you..BUT if i'm post more and more questions admin might chase both of us from the forum.

However it is good to have discussion like this and it's very very useful for newcomers for particular field (Plantation)...

Unfortunately i'm not allowed to post you a private message in here.

If you don't mind can i have your e mail id then i can send you through....

Once again A BIG THANK YOU AND HATS OFF FOR YOUR GREAT WORK..

God bless.......

If u can not pm him I think there is no big offence asking it here.I do not think admins will chase u for that.This discussion is realy useful to interested poeple.

Sudee wrote:

manula wrote:@Sudee, thanks for the info.. these short varitey if i am correct called as hybrid plants ?? other thing we can plant intercop like Banana,Papol .. between the cocount trees and one of my friend has plant teak for the fence..from that you can earn extra income...

Yeah yeah, what ever the size of the land, should have teak around it. We normally call it teak fence. That adds extra value to the estate as well.

If inter crops are also under taken, then no of coconut trees has to be abt 70 pa. Other tis hing i have to mention is, if your doing coconut there should be a station person. And if ur thinking of these inter crops, this station person has to be even better. And depending on the extend of these cultivation, additional workers have to be hired. Managing these workers, finding good station person are very difficult.
If you believe that u can handle the man power smartly, then estate management is not difficult.

Yep, they are hybrid varieties.

As what I heard is one strong person is enough for 1 or 2 acres.. with this intercrops ..some pepole as i know is giving some space to the person to grow some thing he like or from profit some precentage..so these pepole are active... and same time i heard conut devlopment board will give fertilzer on subisdary on less than 5 acres.. hope i am correct..mean time i am also serching few acres around 2 to 3 for coconut cultivation.. (another good thing is if you can build a small house can used to as a good place to rest in off days....same time can given to friends and earn some extra income....many ways... )

Dear Sudee,

Based on your info i have done the below calculations.

Assumed nuts per bunch -12 and 2 bunches for 6 weeks period

Average nuts per plant per year 12x2x8 =192 if so nuts per acre per year 192x75=14400

Correct me if i'm wrong...

Also need your valuable advise on the below

* What will be the selling method of the crop and selling price of the nut

* fertilization - how many times per year and cost.

* If i'm station a person what will be the wage for a month or is it depends on the land area?

* Irrigation method

I know too many questions.... highly appreciate your valuable advises.......

Thanks.....

Hi all,

Thanx for the comments.
I was bit away during the weekend so couldn't reply.

No of teak trees per acre - i think about 250 trees per acre is fine. I have seen some plantation where more than 250 trees per acre are planted, but they are still young, may be at the age between 5-10 yrs. So have to wait for another about 10 yrs to give a conclusion on this. In our case also we have grown it with coconut. So i cant give a precise answer as to what the no of trees per acre should be.

I'l tell you, the best person to contact is forest department. Coz they have enough experience in this, plus, their plantations and the trees are good.
Try - 1920, help desk on agriculture. Through this you will be able to get contact no of relevant forest dept officers.

@ Manula,
Yep, this is also one of the theories of management of workers, where you get them engage on profit sharing basis, give they some land area to do their own cultivation & get some earnings.
Thing is this, none of these theories are proven correct at all the times.

I would share some of my experience as follows.
Even if you think of some other cultivation, there should be adequate water available for that. Coz i'm talking about dry zone. Anyway there are areas like Kurunagala, some inside areas of Galle & Matara, where you can have some water sources & also where coconut can be planted. However, land prices of these areas would be bit high as well.

In my case, there is a lake adjoining the estate. When we bough it, we had to plant many nurseries. So we did that and found a person who was willing to cultivate vegetables there. So asked him to cultivate even the whole land if he wants and get the entire profit. We made a small house as well. Actually he was doing it for some times and weekly we got some fresh vegetables as well.
The main benefit for us was that, as he waters the vegetables, the coconut plants also gets the water & actually the coconut plants in that area came up nicely. He then bought another 2 men (his brother & a friend) for cultivation as he extended it. However, after about one or two months, these three people have had a problem among them and one person had put some poison(pesticide) to the curries while he was cooking. Then they were hospitalized and luckily nothing happen to their lives. However, their after they didn't come back & it was the end of the story.

After some times father bought a tamil family. (im sharing my experience, hoping that you would get some thing out of it) They did nothing other than killing & eating the cocks n hens that were in the estate. So they were simply chased out. after that another two three families were there. They don't stay a long period n will encounter SOME SORT of problem. This is what i wanted to say. We can't predict them.

Even i'm interested at engaging in Eco tourism. We all know that tourism and related industries are developing well. So i hope there will be good prospects in this sector.

I forgot to mention the fertilizer subsidy, when i listed some subsidies available.
Also, i forgot to tell the Coconut development board, where you can get the plants. Its good that u mention it.

I wud share some ideas about harvesting and fertilizer, bit later.

@sudee... ECO tourism also good idea... same time what about some other plantation..due you are already engaged in plantation side... what about Cinnamon.. as i heard in SL we can grow the best quality cinnamon in the world and we are the main exporter.

The tourism sector will be good..but if you seen many coming as budget tourist ..as a package ..every thing arranged through internet.. and not wasting money..many are indian and arab tourist growth we can see these days. Some friends of mine started some apartments in Negambo area like few apartments with swimming pool targeting tourist /free trade managers/sri lankan airliens pilots etc... that also i think good idea.. not very much cost..compared to ECO Tourism project..

Dear Sudee,

Thanks for the info....highly appreciates If you could share some info about harvesting and fertilizer, selling method of the crop ......

Thanks...

Hi all,

@Sajcolombo,

Sorry 4 the delay in answering ur questions.....
Fertilizing is done once a year during December raining time. We have two rainy seasons per year, but the December season last long so we fertilize in this season. There are many station persons who put low quantities of fertilizer than that is required and sell the remaining. Not only they steal, but also the trees wont get the correct fertilizer. During my December school vacations father used to send me to the estate to avoid these. However, after that i cudn't engage on these for a long time and actually i can't remember the extract figures now. So i wanted to talk to father, but still cudn't. Anyway next week il give u those infor, mainly the cost.

Normally its about 3 kg per big tree. Earlier we put "pol pohora". This is available in 50kg bags. U must have seen. Recently father purchased the Urea & others separately and mixed them n put. I'l give u these info next week after obtaining them from him.

Anyway, i feel that we must move from these chemicals to organic fertilizer. Currently i'm studying on this. Day by day chemical prices are going up, coz we are importing them. More than that, in the long run these chemicals will destroy our soil........

Harvesting
Usually its done using a long bamboo attached with a knife at the edge of it.
But in some parts of the country men climb the trees and pluck the nuts. Now these ppl are getting scared. Recently CRI conducted training on this as well.
Another thing to mention here, when u use bamboos to pluck them, its difficult if the no of trees are 75 or above. I also recommend to grow between 75 - 80 trees, only if the land is small. Coz then u can find a person to climb & pluck them. But when it comes to big estates with no of acres with number of trees, it's difficult to climb & pluck so you would have to use bamboos. However in India, since there are enough labour available they use climbing method mostly.

Selling
Most convenient method is selling to "Pol Mudalali". If u have a big crop, can go for the auction.

Sudee. Thanks you very much for all your valuable posts.

BTW I have one out of topic type question if anyone knows the answer.

Can we import ebony wood/furnitures to Sri Lanka? Or transport already manufactured ebony furniture within Sri Lanka?
I heard that cut down ebony trees ("Kaluwara") is banned in Sri Lanka.

@ Manula,

Cinnamon of course i don't know. Coz since i'm in dry zone this in not within our reach.
My father does cashew plantation as well. Just like coconut & teak, this is also undertaken in the dry zone. I forgot to mention this earlier plus i'm not aware of this much.
Anyway, i would just compare this with those two plantation like this.

Initial investment: More than teak, but less than coconut
Harvesting: I think after 2-3 years (sooner than coconut)
Maintenance: Easier than coconut, but harder than teak.
Fertilizer: Much lower when compared with coconut
Harvesting: Normally it's done annually. But i think there are new varieties that can be harvested semi - annually.
(If u do in small scale, u have to stay in the estate through out the harvesting season, may be two three months) If you are interest tell me, i would be able to give more detail.

Eco tourism
Most of the hotels in Sri lanka don't like Indians. Sorry, even if there are Indians in this forum. However, there are few good people as well. My experience is that, Indians who stay two or more nights are normally OK. They come to visit SL. As i know, this segment is small.
Most of the Indians come to SL as transit guest. They stay max one night in a hotel near Katunayake or Negombo. This segment is Big & Worst. Plus, Indians are not interested at Eco. They look for luxuries. So if u do an Eco hotel i don't think that u will get Indians & also don't look at that market.

Middle east guests like to visit SL up country than others. Hope u agree with me. What the hotels say is it is better to have some guest at least to B/E. So they look for Middle east market.

On top of this, if your planning to enter foreign tourist market, investment is very high as u want to get at least some stars. ( 2 or 3 at least)
My idea is that its good to start such projects targeting the locals. I see a improvement in travelling, enjoying & relaxing among the Sri lankans now. There is a growing demand for good places.
Thereafter, internet can be used to promote & sell the packages to foreigners, avoiding the tour operators. Once u get establish well, u may look for the charter guests, coz that gives u some assured sales, plus that will give access to high spending markets like Scandinavian & English.

However, when there are foreign guests who stay even the whole season in a beach resort on BB, average stay in an hill country hotel may be well below 10 nights. I believe that even the Eco hotels wont have long stay guests. So need to analyse these scenarios in depth, before moving ahead.

Sudee wrote:@ Manula,

Cinnamon of course i don't know. Coz since i'm in dry zone this in not within our reach.
My father does cashew plantation as well. Just like coconut & teak, this is also undertaken in the dry zone. I forgot to mention this earlier plus i'm not aware of this much.
Anyway, i would just compare this with those two plantation like this.

Initial investment: More than teak, but less than coconut
Harvesting: I think after 2-3 years (sooner than coconut)
Maintenance: Easier than coconut, but harder than teak.
Fertilizer: Much lower when compared with coconut
Harvesting: Normally it's done annually. But i think there are new varieties that can be harvested semi - annually.
(If u do in small scale, u have to stay in the estate through out the harvesting season, may be two three months) If you are interest tell me, i would be able to give more detail.

Eco tourism
Most of the hotels in Sri lanka don't like Indians. Sorry, even if there are Indians in this forum. However, there are few good people as well. My experience is that, Indians who stay two or more nights are normally OK. They come to visit SL. As i know, this segment is small.
Most of the Indians come to SL as transit guest. They stay max one night in a hotel near Katunayake or Negombo. This segment is Big & Worst. Plus, Indians are not interested at Eco. They look for luxuries. So if u do an Eco hotel i don't think that u will get Indians & also don't look at that market.

Middle east guests like to visit SL up country than others. Hope u agree with me. What the hotels say is it is better to have some guest at least to B/E. So they look for Middle east market.

On top of this, if your planning to enter foreign tourist market, investment is very high as u want to get at least some stars. ( 2 or 3 at least)
My idea is that its good to start such projects targeting the locals. I see a improvement in travelling, enjoying & relaxing among the Sri lankans now. There is a growing demand for good places.
Thereafter, internet can be used to promote & sell the packages to foreigners, avoiding the tour operators. Once u get establish well, u may look for the charter guests, coz that gives u some assured sales, plus that will give access to high spending markets like Scandinavian & English.

However, when there are foreign guests who stay even the whole season in a beach resort on BB, average stay in an hill country hotel may be well below 10 nights. I believe that even the Eco hotels wont have long stay guests. So need to analyse these scenarios in depth, before moving ahead.

@sudee... yes ECHO tourism also good idea.. as you mentioned i think starting a project targeting local tourism will be a good idea.. I am fully agree with you. But that cost also will be some high and then wages/maintaince etc ..will be extra cost ...and we have to relay on the guest..this is the main factor...
Same time i think best will be teak plantation... i mean for overseas worker like me with little activites.. only we have to look after carefully when the tree is in small days and after 10/15y your profit is guarnateed.
many of my friends worked in overseas started differnt projects.. different type of investments.. this is my thinking only. like to know the ideas wel come...

@ UKboy,

I'm not aware about importing "Kaluwara". I just referred the import custom duty guide line 2011 and according to that Ebony can be imported without a control licence, and at zero duty... Only VAT, PAL & NBT.

In SL, it is illegal and not permit will be issued neither to cut down nor transport Kaluwara. Keeping it as timber in a furniture making shop or keeping furniture made out of Kaluwara in a furniture show are even illegal according to my knowledge. But then, if you can import timber, this is a contradict???

There are furniture vendors who claim this is Kaluwara n sell at premium prices. There are some other woods which has a black core and hence using a good finishing they can also be made to look like Kaluwara.

However, in the current Srilankan context, it is not so difficult to sell even the real Kaluwara furniture (made out of trees cut in SL) in shops as well. Coz our police and forest officers are as such.

For those who are interested



http://www.dailynews.lk/epaper/art.asp?id=2012/05/12/pg19_0&pt=p&h=