Amãna Bank goes for IPO and listing on the Bourse

K.Haputantri

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As for the complaint that Mods tolarate hate speech here I should say that I always appreciate the felings of some members hurt by this thread owing to the tricky nature of the subject matter which invariably connects it to religious matters. However, the discussion should continue respecting each other without allowing feelings to take over. So long as the posters do not exceed their limit of free speech the thread can continue.

Guys, let us concentrate on the subject matter. Please refrain from using hate speech in what ever form. Especially, do not use words referring to any religion, cults, or specific religious laws (I know the subject matter canot be discussed without some but try to use genaric words such as "religious laws"), God, God fearing etc which may hurt the feelings of some members, because we need healthy discussion with all who are interested in the subject matter.

Thanks smallville for your comprehensive analysis and advise.

Fresher

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Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

smallville

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npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Even the ppl who are affected by hate speech dont bother explaining this.. Subjects such as this are always drag conversations in diverse directions due to the involved criteria which is also sensitive. All express their views and ask for censorship but nobody wants to explain for the rest of us to know this in detail.

glwking

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smallville wrote:

npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Even the ppl who are affected by hate speech dont bother explaining this.. Subjects such as this are always drag conversations in diverse directions due to the involved criteria which is also sensitive. All express their views and ask for censorship but nobody wants to explain for the rest of us to know this in detail.

Dear Admin

You are holding a respectable title. Be responsible when you commenting some thing. We know you are already hammered in BLUE discussion.

Do any one need to know the business model of Amana bank to defend any racism hate speech? (I already disclosed, I have no interest on Amana or it's IPO and thier business model)

Jiggysaurus

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npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Seetu schemes based on (whatever) laws cannot be explained. That's why no explanation is forthcoming

Once tough questions are asked the dangerous, crazy aspects of this (whatever) law start coming out. The members of (whatever) don't won't this exposed too much that's why the concentrated attempt to shut down this thread through censorship.

Now the (whatever) members are attacking the Admin as well since he didn't give into their attempt to force (whatever) laws into the forum.

Zaiban

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please refer to this link

read the entire PDF file.... and trust me u will appreciate the system and the way of life much better without the racist hate speech promoted by ppl like Jiggy... who use their personal agendas of being dumped by a muslim girl... to make derogatory statements about an entire faith...

http://auscifwp.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/an-introduction-to-islamic-finance.pdf

npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Hanoifortune

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Pls call these nos for more info,

CSE- 112356456
Acuity partners-112206206
Amana bank-117756756

npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Jiggysaurus

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Zaiban wrote:please refer to this link

read the entire PDF file.... and trust me u will appreciate the system and the way of life much better without the racist hate speech promoted by ppl like Jiggy... who use their personal agendas of being dumped by a muslim girl... to make derogatory statements about an entire faith...

http://auscifwp.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/an-introduction-to-islamic-finance.pdf

npp wrote:Not to dig anything up, but what I conclude is that no one really wants to talk about the subject in this thread.
What I asked was a genuine question to explain the business model.

Asking tough questions about crazy, dangerous (whatever) and belief systems is not hate speech.

Trying to censor questions and criticisms and attempting to impose censorship shows the danger caused by weird belief systems.

Giving a link to a 170 page pdf is a joke and an attempt to hide without clearly answering the questions raised in this thread.

I have asked 3-4 questions as have chinwi, smallville and npp, I have also clearly highlighted the dangers of an IPO based on a barbaric stone age (whatever) law. Why don't you clearly provide answers?

How is anyone going to understand this nonsense which is there in your 170 page PDF?

Amãna Bank goes for IPO and listing on the Bourse - Page 4 Forum_10

Amãna Bank goes for IPO and listing on the Bourse - Page 4 Forum_10

Jiggysaurus

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Here are the list of questions raised on this thread. Members of the (whatever) who support this (whatever) law should answer the questions without giving the phone number to the CSE or posting 170 page pdfs (filled with Arabic nonsense letters).

1)Why is the chairman starting his statement with a religious (whatever) mantharey? Not even BFL or PCH does this in their annual report.
2) Why is a seetu scheme following an ancient barbaric law allowed to raise money from peeple who don't have any knowledge or know the dangers of this law?
3) The employment in this "bank" seems to be based on racism. More than 90% of the directors and senior management are from a specific (whatever). How many Sinhalese and Tamils are employed in this so called bank?
4) Pages 156-160 of the prospectus clearly show that only a certain (whatever) peeples have only been given shares in this seetu scheme. There is not a single Sinhalese or tamil in that list.
So this seetu scheme which is loss making is now asking money from non cult peeples because they are loss making and can't meet central bank capital requirements?

Question from Chinwi
My question is,
If I do not believe in a creator God or follow orders given by such a God, have I got ethical rights to own such an institute which is strongly functioning as per the teachings of such a God ?

Question from smallville
Now tell me, aren't there more Muslim directors in this bank?
Like in any other bank, how many Sinhalese and Tamils are employed in this so called bank? Other banks would not be giving chances to a specific religion or a race but mostly to the knowledge, positive attitudes and thinking an individuals possess. So are we to think that all the above are
comprised of such?

Question from npp
For that I request one of you (I can see many who are familiar with the subject) to tell explain the business model

If these questions can't be answered then we have to draw the conclusion that this is a dangerous seetu scheme based on an even more dangerous stone age law system.

Hanoifortune

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Scandal-hit Vatican bank publishes accounts for first time

The Catholic Church took another significant step towards greater financial transparency and accountability on Tuesday, when the scandal-plagued Vatican bank published its annual report for the first time.
Net profit at the institution, known as the Institute for Religious Works, jumped more than 325 per cent in 2012 to €86.6m from €20.3m the previous year, “mainly due to favourable trading results and higher bonds values, resulting from the general decrease of interest rates in the financial markets throughout the year”, the report said.
Its balance sheet was €5bn with equity of €769m. It has 18,900 customers and oversees about €6.3bn in customer assets.

This year is expected to be tougher. “Overall, we expect 2013 to be marked by the extraordinary expenses for the ongoing reform and remediation process, and the effects of rising interest rates,” Ernst von Freyberg, the bank’s president, said in a statement.

The bank’s supervisory processes have repeatedly been questioned since Italian prosecutors began an investigation into money laundering at the institution in 2010.

The Moneyval Committee, the Council of Europe’s anti-money laundering agency, gave the bank a mixed assessment last year and is expected to undertake another review by the end of this year.

Reform has accelerated in the past eight months.

Mr von Freyberg, a German lawyer and manager, was appointed in February by pope Benedict XVI shortly before he abdicated. He has hired Promontory Financial, a US group that specialises in improving banks’ regulatory performance.

Then, in June, another scandal broke when a Vatican cleric under investigation for alleged fraud involving the bank, a former secret service agent and a financial broker were arrested in connection with an alleged plot to smuggle €20m into Italy from Switzerland on a government aircraft.

Earlier that month, Pope Francis established a commission to assess how to reform the bank. It has yet to report. He also appointed Father Battista Ricca, a close friend, to be prelate of the institution to help accelerate reform.

In July the bank’s director, Paolo Cipriani, and his deputy, Massimo Tulli, resigned in the wake of the scandals.

The following month a decree was passed assigning a function of prudential supervision to the Financial Information Authority. It extends relevant economic compliance laws to all the structures of the Church’s administration and to other institutions and entities dependent on the Holy See.

The institution stressed in the report that it is not a traditional bank, but sees its mission “to serve the global mission of the Catholic Church by protecting and growing the patrimony of and providing payment services to the Holy See and related entities”.

“We do not serve business customers, and we do not provide loans out of our deposit base, and barely offer loans at all,” Mr von Freyberg said. “We also do not engage in financial transactions such as hedges or swaps with our clients
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/065a563c-2a76-11e3-8fb8-00144feab7de.html#axzz2mOBvW9wu

Zaiban

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Extracted from the PDF

Before the details of Islamic modes of financing are discussed, it seems necessary to explain some points concerning the basic principles that govern the whole economic set-up in an Islamic way of life.

Belief in Divine Guidance
The foremost belief around which all the Islamic concepts revolve is that the whole universe is created and controlled by One, the only One God. He has created man and appointed him as His vicegerent on the earth to fulfil certain objectives through obeying His commands. These commands are not restricted to some modes of worship or so-called religious rituals. They, on the contrary, cover a substantial area of almost every aspect of our life. These commands are neither so exhaustive that straiten the human activities within a narrow circle, leaving no role for human intellect to play, nor are they so little or ambiguous that they leave every sphere of life at the mercy of human perception and desire. Far from these two extremes, Islam has a balanced approach to govern the human life. On the one hand, it has left a very wide area of human activities to man's own rational judgment where he can take decisions on the basis of his reason, assessment of facts and expedience. On the other hand, Islam has subjected human activities to a set of principles which have eternal application and cannot be violated on superficial grounds of expediency based on human assessment.

The fact behind this scheme is that human reason, despite its vast capabilities, cannot claim to have unlimited power to reach the truth. After all, it has some limits beyond which it either cannot properly work or may fall prey to errors. There are numerous domains of human life where 'reason' is often confused with 'desires' and where unhealthy instincts, under the disguise of rational arguments, misguide humanity to wrong and destructive decisions. All those theories of the past which are held today to be fallacious, claimed, in their respective times, to be 'rational' but it was after centuries that their fallacy was discovered and their absurdity was universally proved.
It is thus evident that the sphere of work delegated to human 'reason' by its Creator is not unlimited. There are areas in which human reason cannot give proper guidance or, at least, is susceptible to errors. It is these areas in which Allah Almighty, the Creator of the universe, has provided guidance through His revelations sent down to His prophets. On the basis of this approach it is the firm belief of every Muslim that the commands given by the divine revelations through the last Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم are to be followed in letter and spirit and cannot be violated or ignored on the basis of one's rational arguments or his inner desires. Therefore, all the human activities must always be subject to these commands and must work within the limits prescribed by them. Unlike other religions, Islam is not confined to some moral teachings, some rituals or some modes of worship. It rather contains guidance in every sphere of life including socio-economic fields. The obedience from servants of Allah is required not only in worship, but also in their economic activities, even though it is at the price of some apparent benefits, because these apparent benefits may go against the collective interest of the society.

Jiggysaurus

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Nice work Hanoi man, typical tactic of hiding, deflecting and running away. When the Vatican bank goes for an IPO we can talk about their problems.

Since you couldn't censor or shut down this thread the points raised remain.

If the questions can't be answered then we have to draw the conclusion that Amana bank is a dangerous seetu scheme based on an even more dangerous stone age law system.

Zaiban

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............ continued

The Basic Difference between Capitalist and Islamic Economy

Islam does not deny the market forces and market economy. Even the profit motive is acceptable to a reasonable extent. Private ownership is not totally negated. Yet, the basic difference between capitalist and Islamic economy is that in secular capitalism, the profit motive or private ownership are given unbridled power to make economic decisions. Their liberty is not controlled by any divine injunctions. If there are some restrictions, they are imposed by human beings and are always subject to change through democratic legislation, which accepts no authority of any super-human power. This attitude has allowed a number of practices which cause imbalances in the society. Interest, gambling, speculative transactions tend to concentrate wealth in the hands of the few. Unhealthy human instincts are exploited to make money through immoral and injurious products. Unbridled profit making creates monopolies which paralyse the market forces or, at least, hinder their natural operation. Thus the capitalist economy which claims to be based on market forces, practically stops the natural process of supply and demand, because these forces can properly work only in an atmosphere of free competition, and not in monopolies. It is sometimes appreciated in a secular capitalist economy that a certain economic activity is not in the interest of the society, yet, it is allowed to be continued because it goes against the interest of some influential circles who dominate the legislature on the strength of their majority. Since every authority beyond the democratic rule is totally denied and 'trust in God' (which is affirmed at the face of every U.S. dollar) has been practically expelled from the socio-economic domain, no divine guidance is recognized to control the economic activities.

The evils emanating from this attitude can never be curbed unless humanity submits to the divine authority and obeys its commands by accepting them as absolute truth and super-human injunctions which should be followed in any case and at any price. This is exactly what Islam does. After recognizing private ownership, profit motive and market forces, Islam has put certain divine restrictions on the economic activities. These restrictions being imposed by Allah Almighty, Whose knowledge has no limits, cannot be removed by any human authority. The prohibition of riba (usury or interest), gambling, hoarding, dealing in unlawful goods or services, short sales and speculative transactions are some examples of these divine restrictions. All these prohibitions combined together have a cumulative effect of maintaining balance, distributive justice and equality of opportunities.

gamaya

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Anyway the expected returns would have to be similar to that of Amana Takaful. They have not given any dividents. Only sub division and rights to suck up the retailer money. Crying or Very sad

Hanoifortune

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I have never invested in bank shares. I think Sri Lanka banks are not dangerous as Vatican Bank.If you find Amana as a seetu scheme, you may write to finance minister who has approved the bank in Srilanka.If you need more info how they work you may contact those tele nos I gave before.

Jiggysaurus wrote:Nice work Hanoi man, typical tactic of hiding, deflecting and running away. When the Vatican bank goes for an IPO we can talk about their problems.

Since you couldn't censor or shut down this thread the points raised remain.

If the questions can't be answered then we have to draw the conclusion that Amana bank is a dangerous seetu scheme based on an even more dangerous stone age law system.

Zaiban

Zaiban

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Jiggysaurus wrote:Nice work Hanoi man, typical tactic of hiding, deflecting and running away. When the Vatican bank goes for an IPO we can talk about their problems.

Since you couldn't censor or shut down this thread the points raised remain.

If the questions can't be answered then we have to draw the conclusion that Amana bank is a dangerous seetu scheme based on an even more dangerous stone age law system.

even if if i put a one page article.. u will not read it.... u r afraid to be faced with the truth.... if u want the truth seek it... don't sit behind a computer screen typing words of hatred...which easily emanates from your heart....

so read atleast the little bit i posted on the thread... from the pdf file....

don't let your laziness and ignorance stop you from learning the truth....

Chinwi

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@ Zaiban,

I appreciate your efforts to tell others about Islamic teachings for proper economy.

Although I am not a follower of the religion (or Srilankan versions of any religion) I feel there are some food for coexistence in the Islamic economy.

Somehow , we can't see those values are really adhered in practice other than by few genuine people these days. ( Especially when they deal with other people.)

By the way, if we come back to the main topic, the Amana bank and its functioning , we have to analyze its ability to perform here before taking any decision to buy at IPO.

My personal feeling is their way of doing business with many unrealistic rules and restrictions alien to the main system is not suitable for small scale investors to put their money to get financial gains.

For big people and the main shareholders, they have many reasons other than monitory gains.

Fresher